NCAA tape quotes Neuheisel: 'I never placed a bet on any team'

Rick Neuheisel repeatedly lied to NCAA investigators about gambling on college basketball, saying he did not take part in high-stakes pools because, "I know we can't gamble or place a bet or anything like that," Neuheisel said on tapes of the meeting that were released yesterday.

The University of Washington released three tapes yesterday totaling 50 minutes and six seconds of interviews between Neuheisel and two NCAA investigators June 4.

The tapes, produced by the NCAA and given to UW officials and Neuheisel's lawyers, depict Neuheisel as initially defensive and suspicious but then contrite and apologetic when he is given time to consider his story.

Throughout the three interviews, Neuheisel never mentioned a March 13 memo from UW compliance director Dana Richardson informing athletic department employees that they may take part in off-campus pools. Neuheisel never refers to Richardson, even though she was present at the meeting.

Neuheisel made the memo — which has been the basis for his defense — public three days later.

The tapes were made public yesterday by the UW under a public-records request by The Seattle Times and other news organizations.

The recordings provide the most detailed account to date of the crucial first meeting between Neuheisel and NCAA investigators Rachel Newman and Lori Williams, going beyond the handwritten notes of two UW officials released earlier this month.

The tapes could be pivotal evidence in a breach-of-contract lawsuit Neuheisel has threatened to bring against the UW.

Neuheisel did not return phone calls last night from The Seattle Times.

First day of practice

Neuheisel was at Rainier Beach High School for the first day of football practice yesterday. Neuheisel is working as a volunteer quarterbacks coach at Rainier Beach.

At the start of practice, Neuheisel issued a brief statement and said he would refuse to answer questions about the University of Washington.

The UW officially fired Neuheisel "with cause" July 28 for taking part in the pools and for initially lying about his participation, which the school said is in violation of a "dishonesty" clause in his contract.

Neuheisel's lawyers have protested that the first tape, which they say contains key information, is missing. UW officials confirm that an attempt to tape the first portion of the interview went awry. However, the previously disclosed notes show most of what apparently was on that tape were questions not related to the gambling but rather to other potential violations the NCAA asked Neuheisel about that day.

The tapes pick up at a point where Neuheisel has just been shown a photo of Al Hodge, who was the organizer of the pools.

In the first seconds of the tape, Neuheisel asked if he could see the information the NCAA has on the gambling. He was told that the NCAA has information that Neuheisel took part in NCAA pools the past two years.

"I was at both of these events," Neuheisel said.

Then he was told that the NCAA has information that Neuheisel bet $7,000 and won $25,000 on Maryland in 2002.

"That is incorrect," Neuheisel said.

He then repeatedly denied his involvement in the pool.

"I never placed a bet on any team," Neuheisel said.

Neuheisel was then asked whether he had any concerns about going to the event.

"I won't go again, if that's the question," Neuheisel said with a laugh. "No, I didn't have any concerns at all, because I know that we can't gamble and I know I can't place a bet or anything like that, but I wasn't, I was just there watching."

A little later, Neuheisel was asked whether he believed anything he did was in violation of NCAA rules.

"No, because I did not place a bet," Neuheisel said.

"Or bet on a team?" an NCAA investigator asked.

"No," he said.

Neuheisel was then asked whether he took part in any basketball office pools. He said he did while working at UCLA and Colorado and that he may have at Washington — something he later admitted to doing. "We all understand the evils of gambling," he said.

The first meeting ended with the NCAA investigators asking Neuheisel for names of people in the pool who can corroborate his story. Neuheisel declined to give them names, saying he didn't want anyone else to get in trouble, but that he could call some people who were in the pool and ask them to call the NCAA.

Asked at one point about how the payout of the money worked, Neuheisel said, "I should let those guys answer that question, because I don't know. I was just there watching."

Asked who won the pool in 2002, Neuheisel said, "I think my friends did."

The first tape lasted about 20 minutes and ended at 10:10 a.m.

The second tape picked up about a half hour later, after Neuheisel was called back in to talk to the investigators.

One of the investigators told Neuheisel that they have found a second person to confirm that Neuheisel took part in the gambling and won money.

"This is your chance to come clean, to tell us everything you want to tell us," the NCAA official said. "That is why we are calling you back in."

Neuheisel then said he thinks he needs to call a lawyer. He also asks to know the names of the people the NCAA has talked to. The NCAA officials say they won't tell him that.

"Obviously, somebody has some witch hunt here," Neuheisel said. "I want to know why, and I want to know who and then I want, then I'll be totally candid with you."

Neuheisel said again that he can find some people who will corroborate his version of the story. But the NCAA officials said they no longer think that's relevant, saying Neuheisel could tell them what to tell the NCAA.

"We have some new information," the official said. "There are two separate sources saying you were there and participated. It's not the same game it was 30 minutes ago."

That meeting ended with Neuheisel saying he will call somebody and get back to the NCAA as soon as possible. UW athletic director Barbara Hedges interrupted the end of the meeting to tell the officials that the UW has never allowed office pools for money on campus.

Afternoon session

The third meeting began roughly five hours later at 3:30 p.m. After introductions, the floor was turned over to Neuheisel to explain his side of the story.

"I appreciate the opportunity to clear up some confusion from this morning," Neuheisel said. "I was surprised by the line of questioning, I thought we were here to talk about a recruiting incident, and obviously it took a different turn, so some of my answers may have been confusing as well as my understanding of the questions, so I'd like to clear up any possible confusion now."

Neuheisel said he has "had time to reflect and talk to my boss (Hedges)," and that "after refreshing my memory, I feel comfortable that what I'm telling you now is exactly what took place."

Neuheisel then went on to acknowledge that he did take part in the pools and was part of a four-man team that purchased five teams each of the past two years. Each year, Neuheisel's team had each of the two teams that made it to the final game. Neuheisel called his team's success "sheer luck" at one point.

Asked how much he won, Neuheisel said that "my earnings in each of those was around $5,000 each year."

Neuheisel said, however, that "I did not consider that gambling" because it was just an auction "among friends."

He characterized the gatherings as "just a bunch of guys seeing who could be the best," stressing that he allowed others to take the lead on the betting while he socialized.

Asked why his story had changed from the earlier interview, Neuheisel apologized and said, "I didn't mean to be evasive. ... I was confused. This was a very big shock to me. ... I wasn't sure what was going on. I thought I was in a movie."

That portion of the interview ended with Neuheisel saying he's looking forward to "putting this behind us as quickly as possible."

The interview then went off record — meaning the tape was turned off — before resuming briefly to ask whether Neuheisel received e-mail updates of the tournament.

Neuheisel said no, saying it "was not an in-front-of-my-mind subject."

The tape then ended.

Neuheisel's lawyers told the UW on Tuesday afternoon they wouldn't try to legally block release of the tapes.

Shortly afterward, Neuheisel lawyer Bob Sulkin released a statement calling on the UW to "produce the missing tape."

Yesterday, Sulkin wouldn't disclose the key questions he said are missing from the tapes, but added, "I find it incredible that in a case of this importance, evidence will be, quote, unquote, lost."